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  • Relying on Other People

    I have heard it said before that there is no way to survive long term in a SHTF scenario without relying on a network of other people. However, I sometimes have my doubts about that. Recently I had a hunting partner back out on a hunting trip that would have put dozens of pounds of meat in our freezer. In addition, I had another friend back out of a survival challenge that he assured me he would attend. It seems that relying on other people is also setting yourself up for some logistical problems. I know it would be tough to be completely alone for long periods of time, but with my family I would have that human contact that would keep me sane(ish). So my question for the group is, why do we really need to rely on outsiders?

  • #2
    Rellies, and other free-loaders, often caught smirking at my doom and gloom views, will be relying on ME!

    ......ONCE!


    OC
    Last edited by Old Codger; 04-17-2017, 08:08 PM.

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    • #3
      Find the right people and you'll thrive; find the wrong people and they'll leave you dead in a ditch.

      Some people can live by themselves for years, others need constant human companionship. Although I could argue that, if you want to do more that just (barely) survive, you do need help from others. No one is good at everything or has time to do it all by himself.

      What if you need things such as:
      • pottery
      • carpentry
      • medicine or medical attention
      • knitting, patching, textile work
      • and many, many others
      You could say that you'll barter for those things. But then you'll be relying on a network of people.

      In a SHTF situation, most of the people that have a family will out that family's interests ahead of anything else. And so it should be. That doesn't mean you can't trust them or that you can't work out an agreement that will benefit both sides.


      Trust is hard to build and easily lost. Look at what people do more than listen at what they say. You'll find a few gems here and there.


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      • #4
        'No man is an island' John Donne

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        • #5
          If people can fight over a TV, who knows that they're capable of for food and water

          Always stay safe,

          Dan

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          • #6
            Originally posted by hawk View Post
            Find the right people and you'll thrive; find the wrong people and they'll leave you dead in a ditch.

            Some people can live by themselves for years
            No they can't.

            'We’ve known for a while that isolation is physically bad for us. Chronically lonely people have higher blood pressure, are more vulnerable to infection, and are also more likely to develop Alzheimer’s disease and dementia. Loneliness also interferes with a whole range of everyday functioning, such as sleep patterns, attention and logical and verbal reasoning. The mechanisms behind these effects are still unclear, though what is known is that social isolation unleashes an extreme immune response – a cascade of stress hormones and inflammation. This may have been appropriate in our early ancestors, when being isolated from the group carried big physical risks, but for us the outcome is mostly harmful.

            Yet some of the most profound effects of loneliness are on the mind. For starters, isolation messes with our sense of time. One of the strangest effects is the ‘time-shifting’ reported by those who have spent long periods living underground without daylight. In 1961, French geologist Michel Siffre led a two-week expedition to study an underground glacier beneath the French Alps and ended up staying two months, fascinated by how the darkness affected human biology. He decided to abandon his watch and “live like an animal”. While conducting tests with his team on the surface, they discovered it took him five minutes to count to what he thought was 120 seconds.

            A similar pattern of ‘slowing time’ was reported by Maurizio Montalbini, a sociologist and caving enthusiast. In 1993, Montalbini spent 366 days in an underground cavern near Pesaro in Italy that had been designed with Nasa to simulate space missions, breaking his own world record for time spent underground. When he emerged, he was convinced only 219 days had passed. His sleep-wake cycles had almost doubled in length. Since then, researchers have found that in darkness most people eventually adjust to a 48-hour cycle: 36 hours of activity followed by 12 hours of sleep. The reasons are still unclear.

            By Michael Bond


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            • #7
              This reminds me of those two Japanese soldiers hiding in the Philippines after WW2. Eventually one died, and the other stayed in the jungle on his own until his own surrender in the 1970s.

              No idea on his final mental condition, but he seemed OK in the pics I have seen.

              Interesting story about the caver in Italy.

              OC

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              • #8
                I'm not talking about living in a cave by yourself. I'm talking about bugging out or bugging in with your family. I realize that complete isolation has huge effects on people physically and mentally. However, being a writer and a survivalist there are periods of weeks where the only people I talk to are my family and I am fine with it. The other scenarios are interesting, but I doubt I would ever be in a situation in which I was completely alone unless my family was killed. My argument is against bartering and networking with people outside of your immediate family. I just do not trust desperate people, and I do not know of anybody in my local community that is as prepared as I am.

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                • #9
                  "Organizational Design. Like the primates that came before them, human beings were never loners. Indeed, the family is the centerpiece of all human societies. Because of the family’s enduring prevalence, modern Darwinian thinkers hypothesize that human survival was greatly aided by qualified monogamy—pair-bonding necessary for the prolonged care of the young. But no family would have survived the Stone Age without additional support. And thus was born the clan, or an extended family built through “marriages”—that is, mating with other families.'

                  By Nigel Nicholson

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                  • #10
                    I think family whether found or by birth is the key to surviving in a group. The people that you depend on must be people who you have known through thick and thin. You must know how each of them will react to different kinds of stressful situations. If you've never seen someone show intense emotion like being scared for their life or mad enough to kill someone for example, I'm not sure you can put your life or the lives of your children in their hands. Family doesn't have to be blood but it does have to be people who have stood the test of time. My survival group includes my blood family but it also includes my best friend who I've known for over 30 years and her husband who I've known over twenty five years. They have four children, all of whom call me "Aunt Megan". Hell I was there when two of them were born! And my friend was there for the birth of all four of my children. She loves them as much as I do. She or her husband would risk their lives for my kids and I would risk mine for theirs. Everyone has flaws and weaknesses. It's how you work together to overcome those that matters. That's family.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Old Codger View Post
                      This reminds me of those two Japanese soldiers hiding in the Philippines after WW2. Eventually one died, and the other stayed in the jungle on his own until his own surrender in the 1970s.
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroo_Onoda Notice how he had contact with others throughout his time in the Philippines.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dan_f_sullivan View Post
                        If people can fight over a TV, who knows that they're capable of for food and water
                        Very good point. I agree that a lot of your people will have a go at your jugular in a survival situation.
                        But you could argue in favor of the other side of the issue too. Selfless people. Kind people. Heroes:

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	Lauren-sefless.jpg
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                        When No One Else Would Help
                        While spending a day at the beach, Lauren Prezioso heard a woman screaming. The woman’s two sons were being swept out to sea, and no one was helping.

                        Lauren jumped in, grabbed the boys, and attempted to make it back to shore. She was struggling to keep herself and the boys afloat when finally a man swam out to assist.

                        Everyone made it safely back to shore: the two boys, the man who swam out to help, Lauren, and Lauren’s unborn baby. Yes, Lauren was eight months pregnant when she rescued the boys.
                        http://thedailyeight.com/lifestyle/s...-in-history/6/ - the webpage will open 1-2 annoying pop-ups, mind you.

                        Too often prepping is associated only with scare tactics and a negative outlook on life. But let's not forget about the best of us. Let's not forget that kindness, even in the face of adversity is everywhere.

                        I don't have any connection to those examples, websites, etc, it's just a couple of diverse examples that I found on a moment's notice. There are a lot more examples that might be more relevant to a prepper, but not necessarily a better example of selflessness.



                        Attached Files

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                        • #13
                          I completely agree, thanks for taking the time to remind us about this!
                          Always stay safe,

                          Dan

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by hawk View Post

                            Very good point. I agree that a lot of your people will have a go at your jugular in a survival situation.
                            But you could argue in favor of the other side of the issue too. Selfless people. Kind people. Heroes:

                            Too often prepping is associated only with scare tactics and a negative outlook on life. But let's not forget about the best of us. Let's not forget that kindness, even in the face of adversity

                            I don't have any connection to those examples, websites, etc, it's just a couple of diverse examples that I found on a moment's notice. There are a lot more examples that might be more relevant to a prepper, but not necessarily a better example of selflessness.
                            It's hard to know where you stand on the issue of the original topic? When things get really bad choices will have to be made on if we will barter, collude, mate, combine, trust others or will we try to go it alone? Meaning ourselves and our immediate family. Which is what I understand Ryan's question to be. For me, in light of all the evidence that has stood the test of time, man will have no choice but to rely on his fellow man for survival. Will some people act like animals? Sure but they will be the first, to be dealt with by those of us who will not stand for that brand of assault on our humanity.

                            Those preppers who think they will survive by themselves and with just their immediate families are very short sighted. Perpetuating our species will require matting outside the family both immediate and extended so that the fittest and smartest will thrive. That's the way it is and always has been even if we see very little of it in society today.

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                            • #15
                              I think loneliness, being alone, and isolation- whether forces or chosen- are all different.

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